{"id":1226,"date":"2013-07-23T16:52:22","date_gmt":"2013-07-23T21:52:22","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/smilodonsretreat\/?p=1226"},"modified":"2013-07-23T16:52:22","modified_gmt":"2013-07-23T21:52:22","slug":"darwins-doubt-prologue-part-ii","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/smilodonsretreat\/2013\/07\/23\/darwins-doubt-prologue-part-ii\/","title":{"rendered":"Darwin&#8217;s Doubt &#8211; Prologue Part II"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>I don&#8217;t know how much I can stomach of this&#8230;<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m going to ignore the four pages where Meyer explains that his detractors really didn&#8217;t discredit his previous book (<em>Signature in the Cell<\/em>).\u00a0 They did, but I&#8217;m not going to get into that fight.\u00a0 <em>SitC<\/em> is dead.\u00a0 It&#8217;s useless.\u00a0 And even the DI knows it.<\/p>\n<p>So let&#8217;s to the actual science that Meyer screws up.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Scientists attempting to explain the origin of life must explain how both information-rich molecules and the cell&#8217;s information-processing system arose.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Done.\u00a0 Yes, it&#8217;s that simple.\u00a0 I&#8217;ve known about this research for years, long before <em>SitC<\/em> came out, much less <em>Darwin&#8217;s Doubt<\/em>.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>A <a href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Ribozymes\"><b>ribozyme<\/b><\/a> (<b>ribo<\/b>nucleic acid en<b>zyme<\/b>) is an <a title=\"RNA\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/RNA\">RNA<\/a> molecule that is capable of performing specific biochemical reactions, similar to the action of protein <a title=\"Enzymes\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Enzymes\">enzymes<\/a>. The 1981 discovery of ribozymes demonstrated that RNA can be both genetic material (like <a title=\"DNA\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/DNA\">DNA<\/a>) and a biological <a title=\"Catalysis\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Catalysis\">catalyst<\/a> (like protein enzymes), and contributed to the <a title=\"RNA world hypothesis\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/RNA_world_hypothesis\">RNA world hypothesis<\/a>, which suggests that RNA may have been important in the evolution of prebiotic self-replicating systems.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>This is from Wikipedia (all emphasis original).\u00a0 So a ribozyme is both information AND information processing.\u00a0 There you go Dr. Meyer, the question was answered before you ever got around to asking it&#8230; indeed, it was answered about the <a href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Stephen_Meyer#Biography\">same time you got your first degree<\/a>. The<a href=\"http:\/\/www.nobelprize.org\/nobel_prizes\/chemistry\/laureates\/1989\/\"> Nobel prize in chemistry (1989<\/a>) was awarded for the catalytic properties of RNA.<\/p>\n<p>Here&#8217;s a<a href=\"http:\/\/www.sciencemag.org\/content\/292\/5520\/1319\"> general catalyst ribozyme<\/a>.\u00a0 The paper describes a ribozyme that can extend any other RNA primer.\u00a0 It was published in 2001, almost 12 years ago.\u00a0 More sloppy research from Meyer.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.sciencemag.org\/content\/332\/6026\/209\">This paper<\/a> describes a ribozyme capable of forming another ribozyme from scratch. It was published in 2011, so I&#8217;ll give him a pass on this one.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov\/pmc\/articles\/PMC2826339\/\">Here&#8217;s one of my favorites<\/a>.\u00a0 The prior papers are interesting, but &#8220;How do we get those ribozymes.\u00a0 That needed intelligence.&#8221;\u00a0 Except, intelligence really isn&#8217;t required.\u00a0 This paper describes the catalytic properties of an RNA that is only 5 nucleotides long.\u00a0 It&#8217;s actually better than that because the active site is only 3 nucleotides long.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>The most intriguing possibility raised by these results is that an RNA reaction center for phosphoester transfer may exist somewhere near this size. This would make the polymerase\/replicase needed to initiate Darwinian evolution of RNAs, the founding event of the RNA world, much more likely. On one hand, with this few ribonucleotides to dispose in space, there may not be other similar nucleotide structures that are both stable and capable of catalysis. On the other hand, for obvious reasons, it will be extraordinarily important to look for other tiny RNA active centers, now knowing they can exist.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>How long, do you think, would it take to form an RNA that has this specific pattern of 5 nucleotides?\u00a0 How long would it take to form any 5 nucleotide RNA that has some catalytic function?*<\/p>\n<p>Probably not that long at all.<\/p>\n<p>So you see, Dr. Meyer, it&#8217;s already explained.\u00a0 It was explained before you finished your degrees.\u00a0 It&#8217;s a known fact that ribozymes are both the information and the information processing system.\u00a0 Which is why the analogy to computers breaks down.\u00a0 It just doesn&#8217;t work for biology. **<\/p>\n<p>Now, before the creationists get all hot and bothered&#8230; let&#8217;s finish the book shall we?\u00a0 This is a specific response to a specific claim.\u00a0 Meyer asks how the information storage system and the information processing system can appear.\u00a0 It&#8217;s because, in biology, they can be the same system.\u00a0 That&#8217;s it.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/smilodonsretreat\/2013\/07\/09\/darwins-doubt-a-review\/\">Back to the rest of the review pages<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>____________________________<\/p>\n<p>* Because creationists (including ID proponents) don&#8217;t understand this, it is inappropriate to make these calculations because there is absolutely no way to understand everything involved.\u00a0 Different nucleotides have different binding energies so the distribution is not totally random.\u00a0 Metal ions can radically alter the probability of certain bonds forming.\u00a0 It&#8217;s impossible (not improbable, but impossible) to understand all of the factors to produce an accurate result.\u00a0 It&#8217;s a waste of time&#8230; except for people that are scared of big numbers&#8230; like creationists.<\/p>\n<p>** Using <a title=\"Argument by Analogy\" href=\"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/smilodonsretreat\/2013\/01\/29\/argument-by-analogy\/\">analogies as an argumen<\/a>t is doomed to fail anyway.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>I don&#8217;t know how much I can stomach of this&#8230; I&#8217;m going to ignore the four pages where Meyer explains&hellip;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":27,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[81,24,8,76,89],"tags":[467,283,506,505],"class_list":["post-1226","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-book-review","category-creationism","category-evolution","category-origins-of-life","category-research-2","tag-darwins-doubt","tag-intelligent-design","tag-ribozyme","tag-rna"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/smilodonsretreat\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1226","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/smilodonsretreat\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/smilodonsretreat\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/smilodonsretreat\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/27"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/smilodonsretreat\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1226"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/smilodonsretreat\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1226\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/smilodonsretreat\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1226"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/smilodonsretreat\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1226"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/smilodonsretreat\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1226"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}