{"id":103,"date":"2012-10-21T10:40:44","date_gmt":"2012-10-21T15:40:44","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/smilodonsretreat\/?p=103"},"modified":"2012-10-21T10:40:44","modified_gmt":"2012-10-21T15:40:44","slug":"heaven-why-it-doesnt-matter-if-it-exists-or-not","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/smilodonsretreat\/2012\/10\/21\/heaven-why-it-doesnt-matter-if-it-exists-or-not\/","title":{"rendered":"Heaven: Why it Doesn&#8217;t Matter if it Exists or Not"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Yesterday, a very sad thing happened.\u00a0 My mother&#8217;s dog died.\u00a0 Now, we were never &#8220;dog people&#8221;, but my mother&#8217;s husband wanted a dog and he got it.\u00a0 That dog has been the biggest mix of frustration and greatness that it&#8217;s possible to be in an animal.<\/p>\n<p>He has always had knee problems and after several surgeries, everyone just kind of gave up.\u00a0 From about 2003 to yesterday, he could move on his own and could be quite fast hen needed, but he would suffer for it the next day.\u00a0 On the other hand, he never ever crapped in the house, he killed several <a href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Water_moccasin\">water moccasins<\/a> on mom&#8217;s front porch, and no one dared mess with him.\u00a0 He was a good dog and I&#8217;ll miss him.\u00a0 One of the design considerations of our new house was space for him.<\/p>\n<p>The reason I bring this up is sadness and loss are a part of what makes us human.\u00a0 Those and other emotions, memories, the good, the bad, the experiences, the pain, the suffering, the joy, the wonder, the awe of our world and our own children is what makes us human.\u00a0 Yes, human can be defined biologically as <em>Homo sapiens<\/em>, but that can&#8217;t define who and what we are.\u00a0 Only our experiences can do that.<\/p>\n<p>I have heard a lot of stories about heaven from my various pastors.\u00a0 I did a search for &#8216;<a href=\"http:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/keyword\/?search=heaven&amp;searchtype=all&amp;wholewordsonly=yes&amp;version1=31&amp;language1=en&amp;spanbegin=1&amp;spanend=73&amp;resultspp=500&amp;displayas=long&amp;sort=bookorder\">heaven<\/a>&#8216; in the New International Bible. There were 399 hits.\u00a0 Now, I looked these pretty quickly, so I might have missed something, but I was looking for descriptions of heaven to see how it compared with what I&#8217;ve been told in services and funerals all my life.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.\u00a0 2 Peter 3:13<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>So heaven is righteousness: <strong>:<\/strong> acting in accord with <a href=\"http:\/\/www.merriam-webster.com\/dictionary\/divine[1]\">divine<\/a> or <a href=\"http:\/\/www.merriam-webster.com\/dictionary\/moral[1]\">moral<\/a> law <strong>:<\/strong> free from guilt or sin (<a href=\"http:\/\/www.merriam-webster.com\/dictionary\/righteous\">Merriam-Webster<\/a>).\u00a0 OK, think about that a second.\u00a0 How much guilt is in our lives.\u00a0 I&#8217;m not taking about divine guilt, but that which we heap upon ourselves.\u00a0 Did we do something that, in retrospect, wasn&#8217;t nice?\u00a0 Do we feel guilt for that?\u00a0 Did we say something inappropriate that hurt someone?\u00a0 Do we feel guilt for that?\u00a0 We don&#8217;t have to be Christians to feel bad for something said in the heat of the moment.<\/p>\n<p>But none of that exists in heaven.\u00a0 So, either we can&#8217;t get into heaven or all those pieces of us are removed.<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m not sure whether to count Revelation.\u00a0 Even now&#8230; especially now, Revelation just seems like a bad trip.\u00a0 There&#8217;s a pretty good (if completely made up) description of heaven in Revelation 21.\u00a0 But also in Revelation 21 is this sentence:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\u2018He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death\u2019<sup>[<a title=\"See footnote b\" href=\"http:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Revelation+21&amp;version=NIV#fen-NIV-31058b\">b<\/a>]<\/sup> or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.\u201d <a href=\"http:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Revelation+21&amp;version=NIV\">Revelation 21:4<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>I&#8217;m not sure if this counts for as heaven as the preceding verses are talking about the New Jerusalem descending from heaven to Earth and God dwelling among the people again.\u00a0 So it may only refer to post apocalypse and not heaven itself.\u00a0 However, this is the verse that pastors tend to use in funerals (taken out of context of course).\u00a0 They talk about how there is no more suffering or pain in heaven.<\/p>\n<p>But again, we are suffering and pain.\u00a0 It&#8217;s not the only thing, but it you remove a big chunk of your life&#8217;s experiences like that&#8230; are you still you?<\/p>\n<p>Another aspect of heaven often mentioned in sermons seems to come from Revelation as well.\u00a0 That is, in heaven, we spend eternity singing the praises of God.\u00a0 That may be from <a href=\"http:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Revelation+19:1&amp;version=NIV\">Revelation 19:1.<\/a><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting:<\/p>\n<div>\n<p>\u201cHallelujah!<br \/>\nSalvation and glory and power belong to our God,<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<div>\n<p>Now, I can barely carry a tune in an MP3 player.\u00a0 I was specifically asked, during my time in church, to NOT sing.\u00a0 Spending an eternity singing would be sheer hell for me and those within earshot of me.\u00a0 Unless that part of me is changed too?<\/p>\n<p>There are also going to be a lot of people I don&#8217;t like in heaven.\u00a0 Assuming that those who say they are Christians actually get in&#8230; how would it feel to be walking through heaven and see the priest who raped you as a small child?\u00a0 How would it feel to see the guy who your wife left you for?\u00a0 Unless all of that is removed as well, then there&#8217;s going to some shit in heaven.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p>I&#8217;ll also note that there is still war in heaven, again courtesy of <a href=\"http:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Revelation+12:7&amp;version=NIV\">Revelation 12:7<\/a>.\u00a0 And there&#8217;s a very interesting contradiction in Revelation as well.\u00a0 According to Revelation 21:22, there is no temple in heaven because God is the temple.\u00a0 But Revelation 15:5 and 14:17 and 11:19, there is a temple in heaven.\u00a0 But that&#8217;s neither here nor there, just thought I would throw that dig in.<\/p>\n<p>Anyway, in my opinion, if heaven existed, then it would remove (according to the Bible) many of the things that make us&#8230; well us.\u00a0 My mom and dad divorced when I was eight years old.\u00a0 I lost a very good friend because of some things I said.\u00a0 I lost a girlfriend because of some things I said.\u00a0 I miss my grandfather more than you can imagine, but if we were both in heaven, he wouldn&#8217;t be him anymore.\u00a0 His entire faith was built around the suffering he experienced in World War II.\u00a0 Without that suffering and pain, then he wouldn&#8217;t have been the person that he was.\u00a0 Nor would I be the person I am.<\/p>\n<p>I know I&#8217;m not perfect, but that lack of perfection is what makes me who I am.<\/p>\n<p>So, if heaven exists as described by the Christian religion (not Catholicism, I&#8217;m not really sure what they think about heaven), then if we die and go there&#8230; we won&#8217;t be us anymore anyway.\u00a0 The uniqueness that is our life will be mostly stripped away and we would be left as a hollow shell of a life.\u00a0 One without all the experiences that make us who we are.<\/p>\n<p>We might as well be non-existent\u00a0 at that point anyway.\u00a0 Atheists describe death as the ceasing of life.\u00a0 We, as the beings that memory and experience make us, cease to exist.\u00a0 Well, that&#8217;s one thing that atheism and Christianity have in common.\u00a0 The us that exists in this world right now, will end when we die.\u00a0 Be it that we totally cease to exist or are a shadow of our life continued in heaven&#8230; either way, it&#8217;s still not us.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Yesterday, a very sad thing happened.\u00a0 My mother&#8217;s dog died.\u00a0 Now, we were never &#8220;dog people&#8221;, but my mother&#8217;s husband&hellip;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":27,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[35,11],"tags":[39,66,65,38,15],"class_list":["post-103","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-religion","category-skepticism","tag-bible","tag-death","tag-heaven","tag-religion-2","tag-skepticism-2"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/smilodonsretreat\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/103","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/smilodonsretreat\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/smilodonsretreat\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/smilodonsretreat\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/27"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/smilodonsretreat\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=103"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/smilodonsretreat\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/103\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/smilodonsretreat\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=103"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/smilodonsretreat\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=103"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/smilodonsretreat\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=103"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}