{"id":1743,"date":"2015-06-13T01:48:32","date_gmt":"2015-06-13T05:48:32","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/dangeroustalk\/?p=1743"},"modified":"2015-06-15T23:36:35","modified_gmt":"2015-06-16T03:36:35","slug":"refuting-how-to-argue-with-an-atheist-tip-1","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/dangeroustalk\/2015\/06\/13\/refuting-how-to-argue-with-an-atheist-tip-1\/","title":{"rendered":"Refuting: \u2018How To Argue With An Atheist: Tip #1: Atheist Fundamentalist\u2019"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><a href=\"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/dangeroustalk\/files\/2015\/06\/scott-m-sullivan.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-1744 size-thumbnail\" src=\"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/dangeroustalk\/files\/2015\/06\/scott-m-sullivan-150x150.jpg\" alt=\"scott-m-sullivan\" width=\"150\" height=\"150\" srcset=\"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/dangeroustalk\/files\/2015\/06\/scott-m-sullivan-150x150.jpg 150w, https:\/\/skepticink.com\/dangeroustalk\/files\/2015\/06\/scott-m-sullivan-50x50.jpg 50w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 150px) 100vw, 150px\" \/><\/a>I recently stumbled upon a Christian apologist named, Scott M. Sullivan. He put out a YouTube series called, \u201cHow to Argue With An Atheist.\u201d I\u2019m an atheist; I like to argue.<\/p>\n<p>The first episode in the series is called \u201cTip #1\u201d so let me start with that one:<br \/>\n\u201cAvoid the Atheistic Fundamentalist.\u201d<br \/>\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"How To Argue With An Atheist: Quick Tip #1\" width=\"500\" height=\"281\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/kHh_wsZgIZk?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><br \/>\nIs he talked about me? I\u2019m as <a href=\"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/dangeroustalk\/2014\/10\/14\/atheist-visits-church-speak-atheism\/\" target=\"_blank\">outspoken about my atheism<\/a> as almost anyone but I don\u2019t think my atheism is fundamental to my life. I speak out about the problems with theism and superstition because they have become a <a href=\"http:\/\/www.examiner.com\/article\/atheism-101-why-do-atheists-care-about-religion\" target=\"_blank\">threat to human happiness, human progress, and human survival on this planet<\/a>. But if that wasn\u2019t the case, I wouldn\u2019t bother arguing about religion at all. It isn\u2019t like everything in my life has to be filtered through my lack of belief in deities. This tip smacks of projection to me.<\/p>\n<p>Sullivan wants believers to determine if \u201cthis person\u201d (i.e. the atheist), deserves an answer or not. This is an interesting view considering that many Christians believe that everyone deserves to be tortured for all eternity and that by sharing the Gospel, Christians can save people from this eternal torment. If you could save someone from eternal torment, would you? Sullivan thinks that Christians need to determent whether or not someone deserves to be saved or not.<\/p>\n<p>He goes on to say that, \u201cEvery Christian should be ready and able to give a good answer to honest, open-minded, inquirers.\u201d Well, I\u2019m honest; I\u2019m open-minded. If presented with valid evidence for the existence of a particular deity, I would of course believe in the existence of that deity. I am absolutely open to the evidence and most atheists I know (and I know a lot of atheists) are the same way. I\u2019m not even asking for rock solid \u201cproof;\u201d I\u2019m just asking for some reasonably valid evidence beyond, crappy arguments that have been refuted hundreds of years ago.<\/p>\n<p>Interestingly enough though, most fundamentalist religious believers (i.e. believers who make their belief fundamental to their lives) have flat out told me that \u201cnothing I say could convince them that God doesn\u2019t exist.\u201d They are not open to any evidence that would show that they are incorrect about the existence of God. This is the very definition of \u201cclose-minded.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>According to Sullivan, many atheists online are, \u201cclose-minded, mean-spirited, and uneducated.\u201d I spend a great deal of time in the online atheist community and like I said before, I have met few atheists who were unwilling to change their view about God if presented with valid evidence. In fact, many atheists both online and off have already changed their view about the existence of God. Many atheists\u2026 even most atheists were once religious believers and changed their view and became atheists. In fact, a fair number were even fundamentalist religious believers and a few were even clergy. The number of vocal atheists who convert to religion after seriously exploring the arguments\u2026 I know of <a href=\"http:\/\/www.dangeroustalk.net\/?p=2999\" target=\"_blank\">just one<\/a>. It\u2019s so rare, that she instantly got invited on CNN just for converting to Catholicism.<\/p>\n<p>As for being \u201cmean-spirited,\u201d we aren\u2019t the ones threatening everyone with eternal torture for not believing things on insufficient evidence. Most atheists I know online go out of their way to be polite. Of course there are a few atheist bloggers like PZ Myers who might be considered \u201cmean-spirited,\u201d but that is really a minority of atheists within the online community. With that in mind however, far too many Christians consider any criticism of their religious beliefs as a personal attack on them. So by \u201cmean-spirited,\u201d Sullivan might just be referring to any atheist who points out the many incredibly large holes within the Christian belief system and throughout the Bible&#8230; and I&#8217;m not even going to get into how mean-spirited many Christians can be.<\/p>\n<p>Uneducated??? Really? Does this accusation even deserve a response? Probably not, but in light of my previous criticism of him, I\u2019ll present one anyway. On average, atheists tend to be more educated than religious believers. There is a high correlation between education and atheism. In fact, some sects of Christianity even forbid education past a certain point (I&#8217;m looking at you Jehovah&#8217;s Witness). Women in particular are often discouraged from higher education by many religious groups. The Religious Right are constantly demonizing higher education. When President Obama said that he wanted every young person to have the ability to go to college, the Religious Right, Rick Santorum famously called him a \u201csnob.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Then there is homeschooling. Many religious believers (including Sullivan) homeschool their kids and it isn\u2019t usually because they believe they can provide a better education than professional teachers. It is usually because they want to restrict the education of their children so that they don\u2019t learn about scientific theories and facts that contradict their deeply held dogmatic beliefs.<\/p>\n<p>Let me give Sullivan the benefit of the doubt on this one and say that maybe he meant that atheists are uneducated about religion. That might make more sense, but it would still be false. As I said before, many atheists were once religious believers and some were in fact quite devout. Pew Research Center actually did a <a href=\"http:\/\/www.pewforum.org\/2010\/09\/28\/u-s-religious-knowledge-survey\/\" target=\"_blank\">religious knowledge survey<\/a> and guess who knew the most about religion? Atheists, of course. So even when it comes to religious knowledge, atheists are usually not uneducated. Sullivan is just wrong.<\/p>\n<p>More projection follows as Sullivan talks about \u201cblind-faith\u201d atheists. I guess by \u201cblind-faith\u201d he means that we \u201cblindly\u201d follow the evidence where ever it might lead. But is that really \u201cblind?\u201d While it could be argued that we have \u201cfaith\u201d in the scientific process, I would argue that we just have a reasonable expectation that the scientific process works based on the fact that it has and it does. No one walks off a tall building because of their blind faith in gravity. We don\u2019t walk off a tall building because we have a reasonable expectation that gravity will cause our mass to plummet to the ground making a loud slat.<\/p>\n<p>Finally, Sullivan claims that atheists aren\u2019t open to rational discussion. This is particularly humorous to me in light of the fact that the comments on his YouTube video are disabled. In other words, he won\u2019t allow any discussion (rational or irrational) on his YouTube channel. The comments section on my blog and YouTube channel on the other hand are open and most comments post without moderation. Some are moderated, but I almost always approve them even if I disagree with them. For the record, Sullivan isn\u2019t the only Christian apologist who restricts comments either. Most Christian blogs and YouTube channels either close comments completely or heavily moderate them to restrict dissenting opinions.<\/p>\n<p>Unlike Scott M. Sullivan, I don\u2019t consider it a waste of time to talk to anyone about their beliefs. If someone starts the conversation with me, I will gladly discuss the subject. Even the most fundamentalist religious believer who claims that nothing could ever change their mind is worth talking to. The way I see it, those are the people who harbor the most inner doubts in the first place. After a while, they will start to sit awake at night trying to think of ways to refute atheist arguments and their doubts will get stronger and stronger over time until one day they are sitting in church and their pastor says something that makes them realize that their pastor has no clue what he or she is talking about. They will start to feel different from their religious friends and then eventually their doubts will turn into a lack of belief.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/dangeroustalk\/2015\/06\/15\/refuting-how-to-argue-with-an-atheist-tip-2\/\" target=\"_blank\">Refuting: \u2018How To Argue With An Atheist: Tip #2&#8242; &#8212; &#8220;Learn Logic!&#8221;<\/a><\/p>\n<h6 class=\"zemanta-related-title\" style=\"font-size: 1em\">Related articles<\/h6>\n<ul class=\"zemanta-article-ul\">\n<li class=\"zemanta-article-ul-li\"><a href=\"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/dangeroustalk\/atheism101\/\" target=\"_blank\">The Atheism 101 Series<\/a><\/li>\n<li class=\"zemanta-article-ul-li\"><a href=\"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/dangeroustalk\/2013\/08\/26\/my-interview-with-ray-comfort\/\" target=\"_blank\">My Interview With Ray Comfort<\/a> (skepticink.com)<\/li>\n<li class=\"zemanta-article-ul-li\"><a href=\"http:\/\/www.examiner.com\/article\/pope-francis-one-cannot-make-fun-of-faith\" target=\"_blank\">Pope Francis: &#8216;One cannot make fun of faith&#8217;<\/a>\u00a0 (examiner.com)<\/li>\n<li class=\"zemanta-article-ul-li\"><a href=\"http:\/\/www.examiner.com\/article\/response-5-lies-atheist-tell\" target=\"_blank\">Response: \u20185 Lies Atheist Tell\u2019<\/a> (examiner.com)<\/li>\n<li class=\"zemanta-article-ul-li\"><a href=\"http:\/\/www.huffingtonpost.com\/staks-rosch\/ask-an-atheist_b_7086448.html\" target=\"_blank\">Ask An Atheist<\/a> (huffingtonpost.com)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>I recently stumbled upon a Christian apologist named, Scott M. 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He put out a YouTube series called, \u201cHow to&hellip;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":19,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[378,5,7,758,1006],"tags":[38,50,1063,1008,1066,1055,1007,158],"class_list":["post-1743","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-apologists","category-atheism-2","category-catholic","category-featured","category-scott-m-sullivan","tag-atheism","tag-christian","tag-christianity","tag-classical-theist","tag-god","tag-religion","tag-scott-m-sullivan","tag-youtube"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/dangeroustalk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1743","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/dangeroustalk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/dangeroustalk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/dangeroustalk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/19"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/dangeroustalk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1743"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/dangeroustalk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1743\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/dangeroustalk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1743"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/dangeroustalk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1743"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/skepticink.com\/dangeroustalk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1743"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}